Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [00:00]Hey everybody and welcome to qBitTensor Labs Live. today I can't believe it's October, man. Holy smokes. The trees know it's October, though. spoiler alert, we still have Ryan up here. We're gonna throw him in the green room in a second, but Ryan will be joining us all later. Ryan, just because we forgot to have you start in the green room anyway, do you wanna give us a quick intro for anybody who doesn't know the famous JB?
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [00:26]Yeah, sure. Most people watching this know me, yeah, as JB Rings. I've been in the qbit community for the entire time, I believe. And yeah, it's just crazy to be up here, get to talk to you guys, got to meet Bob this week and a lot more to talk about too later on. So looking forward to it. Let the team get cooking.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [00:45]Yeah. Awesome.
Excellent. Yeah, yeah. So we'll throw you in the green room. We'll have you back. You'll be able to hear what's going on. And and we'll see you on the second half of the of the qBitTensor Labs live. All right, talk soon.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [00:57]Yeah, sounds good. Thanks.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [01:00]man, I totally cut him off. All right. But hey, so yeah, thanks everybody for joining us. it's been a cool week for BitTensor with the exploit conference going on. they really did an amazing job there. We'll talk a lot about that in the sections that come.
if you have never been here before, just the quick usual disclaimer is that everything we share in these sessions are ideas and not promises. we will give you our opinions on things, but it's definitely not investment or legal advice. and you know, as long as you guys keep doing good with this content and not weaponizing it, we'll keep putting it out. And if you're still here, then we consider you as agreeing to those terms.
Okay, so actually this is nice because we're back to the usual standard flow. today we're gonna talk about Enigma first. a lot of a lot of exciting stuff going on around Enigma. we'll take a little bit of a different spin when we get into quantum today. We're gonna sort of like zoom out and look at the quantum subnet plus Open Quantum and kind of how those two play together and why it's so important. we're gonna talk events, including exploit. that's when we're gonna have Ryan back on.
he he he had some really cool key things happen for you know, him and and their up and coming subnets so we'll talk about that. And then we'll go over the community sentiment as we always do. And, you know, as I was putting these slides together, I think I actually inserted this slide at like four in the morning. I sort of realized that a lot of what we're talking about now is really going from like proving things out and building things into scaling them. And so it's kind of like it's it's a lot of fun to be
in the position of being able to kind of like adjust the conversation into that tone. All right, so we'll jump into it with Enigma. I'm gonna give you guys a quick recap on Enigma. using the the presentation actually that I gave a five minute presentation at the exploit conference. So if you guys saw it there, I apologize for the refresh on this. But I think we really have to start off when we think about the Enigma subnet and ask
What makes something state of the art anyway? And the answer that I put out there is that, you know, we t we tend to think state of the art as the best that can be. But actually, it's really nothing more than like a centralized staffing decision. Because the truth is that there's talent all over the place. But some of the like biggest and best funded projects that sort of like advance the state of the art are in labs where you have like some centralized.
Committee that decides where to put funds and you invest in something until it reaches a certain point and then you stop investing in it. And at that point, wherever you achieved, that kind of becomes the new state of the art. And that's really interesting because that just that doesn't mean that state of the art is the best that you can do. It just means it's sort of where you stopped before. And when we talk about talent being anywhere, we actually mean that talent is everywhere.
Like those basements and apartments are actually all around the world, even though you know the labs might actually be hyper-localized to different you know regions. And so we're really trying to get access to all of that talent and advance the state of the art by removing the centralized staffing decision with Enigma. This photo is a photo I took from const's keynote at the Exploit conference. And
I'm sure I've seen him say variants of this kind of quote in the past. I love it. I think it embodies what BitTensor is. It says incentive computing is where you specify a valuable result, how to verify the result, and you specify a reward for producing it, and you leave the methods open. You really couldn't have described Enigma any better, especially this whole idea of like specify a valuable result, like
What is the thing that you want to achieve? That is the milestones, and have a reward for producing it. And in our world, those important results come in the form of problems that are just beyond the state of the art. And the prizes here, they don't just put miner emission into the miners for participating. Those prizes grow until you can actually achieve the result and unlock them. The whole world competes. And when they do actually succeed,
They get the payout and that result gets published so that it can feed back into the next milestone, which you know, now that you've changed the state of the art, the next milestone goes just beyond that state of the art. But I want to reiterate that there are zero prizes for participation. There are no participation trophies. I grew up in like the first generation of like kids that got like trophies for playing T-ball. I always thought it was weird. Like my team sucked because I wasn't the most athletic kid.
I still got a trophy for it. We have no participation trophies here. We only have big results earning big rewards. And that is the name of the game with Enigma. And one of the things that was very encouraging about Exploit, among other things, there were lots of things encouraging about it. They did an amazing job with the show, was just how many people who, you know, we don't see participating in Enigma knew what Enigma was. you know, when when you introduced it, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys are the ones with.
The big prizes. And it's like, yes, the one with the big prizes. And so the other interesting thing, though, about Enigma is that we do it with real partners. We have these huge prizes, and it's all powered on BitTensor. Like the entire thing is done on BitTensor. In fact, even those prize pools, well, lots of subnets still exist with like owner custodied wallets that accumulate prizes where you have to trust them. You don't even have to trust us, it's all tracked on chain.
In fact, here's a screenshot from Enigma where you know it just follows through and reads the chain to show you exactly what's where and what's been proposed and what prizes went where. And we do want to give a big shout out to the Church of Rao, and specifically, you know, I want to give a big shout out to Rhef who's been a big advocate for this stuff, for building those treasury wallets. this is all built on that backbone. And we really do look forward to seeing more subnets use those treasury wallets. I think as of today, we may still be the only.
And so, like what exemplifies a good challenge? Well, originally when I thought about it, I sort of thought about the items that we have here on the left hand side. Problems need to be like really hard. Like getting a little bit further needs to be a lot harder than before. you need to be able to scale those challenges. So even though like in production, you might have this giant version of it, you need to be able to have something that you can scale down to a verifiable size and run that verifiable size to actually test it. Like if it costs you a million dollars in HPC time.
Not very valuable because you can't test that. On verifying, you do need to actually have a verifiable solution. Like we need to know if you were right or wrong. And because people can keep submitting solutions, we have to be able to randomize the problem so that we don't just give the same problem every time you submit a solution. So that's kind of the tech side. But then what's really important also about these challenges, just to make sure that like we're doing something valuable that can attract attention and that can you know.
pull investment into the subnet is that the problem has to be really like understandable. It needs to be something where the partner or us by ourselves with the problem have the ability to garner a lot of attention on the problem. we really like working with solid partners. Ideally we want these partners to even be the partners that might license the IP that is generated from Enigma. And we want the solutions to these problems to be very valuable. So when you put all of those together,
It's actually a little bit more challenging than a lot of people would expect to find good challenges. And I'll also say that, you know, based on both the Arbos feedback that was posted onto our subnet, we actually scored really high, we got like a seven out of nine by all of its rankings. Well, we would have got an eight out of nine if we had AI in our subnet. and so between that and the themes at exploit, I've kind of added some more criteria to what we're looking for, which is
You know, we are going to start prioritizing AI challenges next. that should get us from a seven to an eight, which is a primo score. seven out of nine is pretty good anyway. We also are looking to find subnets as partners. and so one of the things that we started doing at Exploit was talking to a number of the subnets to see, you know, about potentially launching challenges where the partner is a different Bittensor subnet, helping them and helping our own challenges.
And then there's this new concept of gamma token, which if you haven't heard about that, we'll talk about it in a little bit more detail later. But it's essentially a token for going between different subnets. And you know, we think that there's going to be upcoming opportunities as we work with subnet partners to bring gamma into the equation for Enigma. And so we have two challenges today: breaking RSA and hardening quantum proof, and breaking RSA.
Has had a lot of questions recently. So we'll spend a little bit of time talking about it. But before we do, the last time we talked, we were in this world where, you know, we had a few milestones behind us, and 512 was the one that was, you know, gating and it had been there for months and it was a super challenging thing. And by the way, 512 is the RSA size that literally, you know, our communications were encrypted using up until essentially 1999
Well, that one fell. That's been solved. And so we put out 530 And I'll be honest, I thought 530 was gonna stand for a really long time. but it didn't. It was solved. so somebody crushed that one. And I think r ShorShot Omar tell me if I'm wrong. I think 560 is coming next. Is that right?
Yeah, no, yeah.
Ryan (ShorShot) [11:15]Mm.
I I think that's what we're aiming for. I mean, you know, what we w really want to do is make it challenging enough so that, you know, it there is some effort involved. It's not unobtainable. And, you know, we had people even complaining back in the 460, 480 bit that these things were impossible and we needed to open up more time and more CPU and and and the community the the people involved really pushed it there and
You know, I I wouldn't be surprised if 560 falls not too far in the future, but I mean it it it starts to get just harder and harder, especially with the constraints that we have. And and that's that's the rules of the game are like, you know, completing those challenges within the four hour window and with only 24 CPUs and RTX 6000 pro. So those constraints do make do make it difficult, but I think it's n a I
We saw some new techniques and stuff that was new I I don't think associated with this project but was pulled into it that really like knocked it out of the park with five s five with 530 So
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [12:23]Yeah, I agree. So I'm gonna be honest. I didn't think five I thought 512 was gonna be it. didn't think we were gonna break through that one. so I'm blown away with where we're at on this. Okay, so the other criticism though is wait a minute. So the biggest number that's been factored, you know, the biggest RSA bit size that's been factored is actually like 896 bit. That's way bigger than 560. So who cares about 560? Well, when I talked about scaling problems, like
If you think about think about this with a metaphor. So like if I could save 5% on inference, and we think about how much cost there is servicing inference requests, like a 5% a 5% reduction in that would be millions of dollars, like millions and millions and millions of dollars. if we were to run a challenge like that.
We wouldn't have you run millions and millions of dollars through it to verify that you solved it. We would scale it way down. We'd give you a smaller compute environment, but we would have like a representative problem that you had to run and prove that you could do this component more efficiently. That's how RS that's how the RSA challenge works. So 896-bit has been solved, but it was solved on like massive compute. in fact, I think it was solved I I've got just looked it up. I think it was like 2,000 GPUs.
across 10 days, you know, a huge amount of time. whereas we only give people like a single GPU for four hours. And so that is our scaled down version of the problem. You so you should expect that to be quite constrained. It will not surprise me if Enigma itself actually advances how far people are able to factorize b as they start trying to use the things that are discovered here and scale them up. okay so why is RSA actually a good challenge?
Well, it's good because it sort of exemplifies most of the criteria that we talked about. Also, it was really good for building the framework because it's like a very simple math to generate and math to verify. It garners a lot of attention. So we're able to get a lot of mileage out of this to get eyeballs into BitTensor and to pull them in. And it's it it's in general just really well aligned with it. Okay, so also it serves as a canary in a coal mine. So
The 1024 challenge, we don't expect anybody to break that using classical methods. But when it does, when it can be broken, we would expect somebody to take a quarter million dollars. And so, you know, it may it may potentially give like an early early warning sign that quantum computers are about to break 2048. And the big standing prizes, again, having those out there for a long time not being won is actually a good thing, both for like subnet health.
And also again to garner attention. And so yeah, that that 896. great. I did actually include it. 2048 GPUs, 10 calendar days, that's 30 GPU years. We give one GPU for four hours. And so 30 years is actually like 65,000 times longer than four hours for context. So it's not an apples to apples thing. It's not you know.
I think it's what we are achieving is a very impressive result. You should not at all be worried about the fact that you know, you can put a giant server farm for 30 GPU years and brute force something bigger. So in the same way that we looked, yeah, okay. So I suppose does this exemplify a good thing? Yeah, yeah, we think that it does. Omar, in the context of this difference between four hours
That people have to run our solutions and the idea that they have like nearly unlimited time to break anything else. let's talk a little bit about the white paper that you're working on.
Omar [16:20]Totally. So we were very excited to sort of see the 512 results. That was, you know, what we had decided as our big milestone. This is the encryption standard from the 90s. And it was beaten pretty handily. And just as we were looking at the different techniques that built up over the previous milestones as well as this 512 milestone, we were comparing back to the benchmark of this 2015 paper we've mentioned, which sort of set the standard for how easy it is to break RSA 512 on.
you know, any amount of hardware. And they said it could be done with you know, four hours on AWS instances, but it would take far more CPUs than what we used and it would cost you around seventy five dollars, which in today's dollars is like a hundred dollars. And looking at our results, we calculated that out. and the cost of breaking RSA 512 today is something like seven dollars. So that's like a huge, huge improvement.
over the previous the previous standard. and and we thought that was quite paperworthy. So we're working on putting together a paper, sort of detailing our findings. and then we will also be sort of extrapolating out what is what does that look like if we use those methods on unlimited hardware and unlimited time, like like these record breaking. And there will be analysis in there talking about, you know, how far could we go using the methods discovered here. So even though, you know, we are working in a constrained environment, that doesn't mean
that they couldn't be used to to scale up to new heights that haven't been discovered quite yet.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [17:53]Yeah, you know, one thing I'm just thinking I'm thinking like totally on the fly here. And so, you know, it's always a bad idea. but one of the things that's been offered to me a number of times is, you know, they have these like huge compute clusters at the national labs. And like the time has been offered to me. Like basically, if you apply for it, you can get huge amounts of time on those computers as long as you publish the work and then cite their their super compute resources.
And so specifically both Argonne National Lab and Oak Ridge have volunteered their supercompute clusters for quantum sim you know, quantum adjacent problems. This feels kind of quantum adjacent. and so if there was somebody that actually wanted like you know, had was serious about trying some of these approaches and trying to scale them up, I'd love to talk about it and see if we could maybe collaborate on that. 'Cause I d I think you're what you're saying is forecasting.
what it would take to do the larger one as opposed to actually trying it, right?
Omar [18:53]Absolutely. Yeah, we're forecasting it. We're not actually gonna run the experiment. But if someone were interested in in collaborating with us on this, to say that a Bittensor subnet broke the best ever factored RSA key, that'd be pretty good for the ecosystem. So
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [19:08]It'd be
pretty good for the ecosystem. Let us know if you're interested. All right. yeah. So unfortunately I pulled like a a total bob move and like jammed way too much content into today's slide. So I'm gonna keep talking like I'm overly caffeinated. okay, so that was breaking RSA. I'm act to to be fair, it's nearer and dearer to my heart. the sorry, the hardening quantum proof challenge is nearer and dearer to my heart.
and so I was super excited that Milestone Three, which has lasted for months, broke. And what's crazy is you know, I I've I've actually been on the road. I was at a quantum world congress and then a hackathon at Clemson and then the Exploit Conference. So ShorShot messages me and he says, It's happened, it's broken.
But we also have a small defect in that this new online submission that we added, we forgot to like enforce a gate. And so we let an online submission come in also. And that online submission looks like it might actually win too. And it did. And we actually had two completely different solutions in a 24 hour period, both break milestone three using actually two totally different approaches to it. And so you know, the
Ryan (ShorShot) [20:26]Yeah, I think it was less than
a t less than a twelve hour period even. Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [20:30]Was it less than twelve hours? man.
In fact, I like it's I don't know, man. Like I'm like this believer that there are no consequences. Like, you know, so I like I I personally downloaded those solutions too and looked through them to make sure that like one guy hadn't just taken the solution from the other guy because it's just too crazy. What are the chances?
Ryan (ShorShot) [20:50]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [20:50]Okay, so what we've done though is we issued the full prize to the first winner and then we reached out to the second winner, who actually is is an important
Person because we we happen to know who that person is. They're the head of a quantum program at a large pharmaceutical company. and in our day job, it's important to have that relationship healthy. and so we reached out to that person and said, Hey, bad news is you missed it. The good news is we're actually still willing to compensate for this if you want. And so your options are either maintain your source privately.
Well you you know, save it for kind of like the next milestone, or publish your code and we will do like the baseline prize and you know, issue you ten thousand dollars. And so this individual said, they really have had a lot of fun with this. They put a lot of time in it, they'd love their solution to be open sourced and to take the ten thousand. The other thing that is super interesting is they had been submitting through the web portal, which doesn't require you to be in the Bittensor ecosystem, but then
They said, I'm gonna go register a Bittensor wallet. So I thought that was you know, kind of a really cool testament towards seeing like an outside person building a positive impression of the ecosystem. Okay, and so where the RSA challenge had high marks on all of the criteria for a good challenge, except for value, because it's not super licensable.
These solutions are very licensable. Like the breakthroughs that these people are coming up with are actually like novel breakthroughs that are very licensable. The downside to this one is that maybe they're less understandable. Like if you're not a quantum person, you don't really understand that what these guys are trying to do is sort of like prove or disprove that they've achieved quantum advantage using these peaked circuits. And so like the quantum world cares quite a bit about that, but it's not quite as marketable to the outside world.
But the cool thing about this is that we are actually exploring our first license deal. Now, I'm gonna give you guys full disclosure. The company we're exploring that with is Quantum Rings, our our other company outside of BitTensor. but when we saw the solutions that got submitted, there were a couple of the tricks that I was like, we should put that into our core tech. and we wouldn't put it in by using the open source license, we'd sort of have to
replicate the approach in our own tech. but in an abundance of caution, if we end up doing that, we definitely will license the content. And so we're currently in the stage of testing that to sort of see if it's gonna give us the performance boost that we want. And if it does, we will actually have our first small licensing deal. And so Omar, talk a little bit about like the road to revenue. What's that look like?
Omar [23:45]So totally. So it it seemed to make sense that we sort of outline what the the process to revenue is, because I think a lot of people are uncertain. They say, you know, you keep talking about all these milestones. What does it mean? How does that produce value? And I I think the important thing to consider here is that all of the initial milestones were very much building up to sort of the stage we're at now. So when we launched back in the beginning of the summer, really.
You know, we were mostly giving milestones that we knew were achievable or, you know, pretty likely achievable, but mostly to sort of warm up the miners to how does the system work? What are the challenges? You know, what do you need to do to win? And as we kept going along, you know, the difficulty kept increasing. many cases we'd go weeks without giving out prizes, so the prize pools would rise. And that attracted a lot of outside attention.
You know, as we've mentioned, we're already seeing web submissions, which is an early sign that non-Bittensor native people are coming to participate. So now we get to sort of the stage where we are now, you know, marked in the we are here, is we're approaching sort of small IP sales. We're getting to the point where milestones are achieving difficulty and relevance that people actually care about what the outcome is, right? And so with quantum rings, there there's interest in the
IP that was produced from this challenge. And the hope is that we see other companies start to take notice and say, hey, I would be interested in licensing that IP. As we continue to move along, as the boundaries keep getting pushed, we'll see the challenges become harder and harder. So in the case of RSA, pretty soon we might be approaching the 896, or we say, hey, you know, we can now prove that the IP generated from 530 can be used to, you know, reach or surpass 896 bit.
and and that'll I think really attract attention as well. And the idea there is that when we can start making like large, repeatable IP sales, you know, it's not just a small licensing agreement. It's this is something a a company desperately needs and and does is willing to pay us a lot of money for. And that's when we really see sort of the whole revenue cycle come to fruition. one of the other things that seemed to be important to clarify is why are we doing so many of these small milestones, right? You know, we're going from
480 to 500 to
512. And all that is in the name of sort of building the ladder that miners need to reach these heights. You know, if we launched on day one and said break 512, it probably still wouldn't have happened yet, right? But the idea is that every time we put out a small incremental milestone, incremental progress is made. And that gives all of the miners a new platform and new techniques to build off of. And and we've seen that in most of our solutions. I believe at least one of the hardening quantum proof
winners from the third milestone had built off of the work with the previous two. And that's sort of proof that the the engine is working, right? We're we're building up traction, the the flywheel is turning, and pretty soon we expect to be seeing, you know, every milestone is particularly relevant or has potential to be super relevant to companies outside the ecosystem.
you're muted, Bob.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [27:04]Yeah, I appreciate it. man, I actually just had a disaster here. My monitor like totally is off. So we'll we'll roll with the punches anyway. But now I'm on my laptop here. This is all I got. All right. So basically, what are we gonna do for the next challenge? we sort of have like two different directions that we're coming from here, full disclosure. So one is that we are actually sitting on a repository of future challenges. So if you think about that chart of like what makes things a good challenge, the items on the left.
All of these sort of check all of the boxes for the items on the left. We also have a number of interested parties. And this is like everything from universities to national labs to defense contractors to other Bittensor subnets who have expressed interest in launching a subnet, but haven't implemented them yet. And so we sort of have this process to go through of saying, like, okay, are any of these sort of suitable and appropriate for you? Should we actually launch a new challenge that's much more directed?
by the party so that it's much more likely to actually be like licensable afterwards. And you know, we'll get our we'll get our next challenges out there. we can move faster without partners. We still want to try to maintain that vision of going with the partners so that it it not only increases the marketing reach that we have, but it also increases, I would say, the likelihood of licensing the content afterwards. In fact, the defense contractor that I talked to, their first question was
How much is this actually gonna cost me? Like say you know, I give you guys this small problem that I tell you is really valuable to me, then you guys go and you have these miners solve it. What are you gonna do? Come back and try to charge me hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so, you know, the answer to that was, well, we can totally agree upon like you know, licensing terms ahead of time and you just don't pay unless we pass it. But but it's fun. we have a lot of I would say like only good problems you know, happening right now, which is great.
All right, hoof, man, that was Enigma. We're at the bottom of the hour. So we're halfway through our time. So I'm gonna go a little bit too fast on quantum so that we have time for Ryan. You've all seen this slide before. I think people are already familiar with this. That the Chutes one of the top subnets in BitTensor, is one of the key elements to OpenRouter. OpenRouter is this cool offering out in the market.
That provides a single API to let people run on kind of any of the top AI models. And we sort of follow that model. In fact, I if anything, I would say not only that defined the shape, but it kind of was the aspiration for what we build with quantum. And we have built that between Open Quantum in a traditional company and SN48 in BitTensor.
And what's really cool is that OpenRouter was acquired for $7.5 billion in June. So I kind of want to talk to you guys about what does that actually look like? Like, what is the Quantum Rings story? What is the Subnet 48 story? How does it work together? and to just kind of like demystify that a little bit. And so I would say that these two offerings together essentially provide the open infrastructure layer for quantum computing. And like, what does that mean? Well, every technology stack.
ends up getting a neutral infrastructure layer at some point. We think we're building quantum's. And so if you think about like you know operating systems, that's Linux. Linux is like the open infrastructure layer for operating system. If you think about like what used to be fragmented servers, now we pretty much standardize on like Docker containers, maybe coordinated by Kubernetes. When you think about fragmented cloud solutions, we're using tools like Terraform to form those.
And when you think about fragmented AI models, that was OpenRouter. And those companies, they don't just have like, you know, small open source revenue. They exit for billions of dollars. And so Open Quantum sort of works by letting any of the frameworks that developers develop in connect into the Open Quantum cloud and then through Subnet 48 and through Direct, if they're not comfortable operating in qu in crypto, we'll run on the leading quantum computers.
We also support generative AI, so we enable Gen AI to do the quantum executions for you. And a big part of what we do while that's all happening is that we're sort of saving the data about, you know, both the inputs, the outputs, the execution data, et cetera, building, you know, what's actually a pretty big and robust data set. In all of the subsidized compute, if a user takes advantage of any of the free credits that we offer or the reduced price offers, they can only do that.
On public. And public is essentially decentralized running through Subnet 48. They can also pay, and if they pay full price, then it's centralized and private, and we don't put it through any of the decentralized stuff. This is important for some customers. And so you know, people might ask, well, why would you subsidize? Well, we really want to pull as much traffic in as we can because AI is essentially rewriting every part of the software industry.
Except for quantum and quantum's growing from like a 3.5 billion dollar market to a 20 billion dollar market over the next few years. And AI still sucks at quantum. Like it can do like some light Qiskit stuff, but like in terms of actually like mapping real business problems into quantum algorithms, a recent study said that it's actually less than forty percent accurate at doing that. And so we're sort of trying to get mass adoption of the offering.
you know, largely through subsidized compute, so that we can build up that data set and be one of the first players to enable that. And we're seeing strong and accelerating results. So both in terms of like the number of jobs coming through the system, the total number of users, the total number of active users, the total revenue, like all of the all of the charts are kind of up and to the right, which is exactly where we want to be at this stage of adoption.
But what's coolest about this is that 90 plus percent of this traffic is going through Subnet 48. And so we see that traffic coming from all around the world. There are a few countries that we're not allowed to service that we can't transact with, but you know, pretty much the entire you know, the the entire world that has an IT infrastructure is starting to use Open Quantum as their open infrastructure layer to run on quantum computers.
And a huge part of that is referrals. Like 23% of our users in September came from referrals, which is, you know, nothing short of incredible from my perspective. And so one of the funny panels that I got to watch at Exploit was actually on this idea of like using subnet emissions to fund a business. And the net net that I would sort of say came from that is you can't use subnet emissions to fund a business. Like you can use it to fund
the development of some technology. But if you're actually trying to like extract enough capital from your subnet to pay for staff and pay for, you know, pay for you to run your business, you're gonna crash out your subnet. And so Quantum Rings, the traditional business, is in the process of opening its next round of funding, which is quite exciting. And at the same time, the first revenue buybacks are coming to Subnet 48 from
the e-commerce that's happening in Open Quantum, buying time on subnet 48, in October. And we actually have a couple months of that, but ironically, because of the way that we have everything kind of intermingled, it just takes a little while to do all of the books and figure out exactly how much capital goes into those buybacks. So you should all see that coming in October though. So overall, I you know, I'm very excited about the progress that we're making on 48 and with Open Quantum. I mean, I think
I think it is the future. And I'm grateful for BitTensor to you know help make that possible. All right. So now we get to transition into a lot of the softer stuff. we're gonna talk about events, and I think we're starting with, yeah, IEEE Quantum Week. Omar, we'll hand you.
Omar [35:28]Yeah, so
the the team has been on the road the past couple of weeks. We've been all over the place and we we kicked off our tour at IEEE Quantum Week in Toronto. we Quantum Rings was able to attend as an exhibitor. we spent a lot of time talking with potential users, students, academics, industry leaders about Open Quantum and what the value proposition is. A lot of people were excited to hear, you know, hey, you know, there's this heavily subsidized public tier which
Again, powered a hundred percent by BitTensor. So, you know, I was actually looking through a lot of the recent signups this morning and there were a lot of people from that conference that had been come and signed up for Open Quantum, which is exciting that things are working. BlueQubit won an award for their work on peaked circuits. They put out a paper not too long ago and and they won, which was super exciting.
Both for them and also for us as you know the hosters of a a peaked circuit challenge. one of the things we did notice there is I was talking with Hayk, you know, you can see him and I in the top right corner, and he kept telling people that came to his booth, hey, we're actually collaborating on this challenge, on Enigma, and there's a bunch of money behind it. And Hayk was just super, super excited about you know the challenge we're running and you know, wanted to tell everyone about it. And I I think the
You know, same excitement that we have for, you know, hey, we're using this decentralized system, we're using large bounties as sort of this method for, hey, prove it, prove that it is quantum advantage. you know, those guys are totally bought in. And it was funny, a lot of the booths that were like partnered with the bigger companies like NVIDIA or IBM had these little plaques that they put up saying, Hey, you know, we're a partner with the IBM ecosystem. And I go over to Hayk and he says, Well, why don't we have one for Enigma?
Right. We want to put that on our booth. And the the BlueQubit guys are
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [37:25]Yeah.
Omar [37:26]very cool idea. They're they're very excited to talk about us. Bob, I think you had mentioned in a previous stream you had dinner with the BlueQubit guys and all they wanted to talk about was Enigma. So the
Ryan (ShorShot) [37:36]Yeah.
Omar [37:36]the excitement from our our partners are there and we're actually cooking on some stuff in the background with them that we'll reveal soon. So the the system is working as intended. I I think that's that was one of the big takeaways from
IEEE. And then we are also noticing a big interest in like classical quantum hybrid workloads. There was a lot of talk of, you know, how can you use like variational quantum algorithms? and I think that'll do a lot in sort of shaping the future quantum landscape. And we'll we'll have to explore how we can potentially get on board with that either through you know Enigma challenges or integration with Subnet 48.
but there is a lot going on in quantum and it's, you know, very exciting for us to be in the forefold of that.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [38:24]Yeah. As a guy who spends like most of my time in the, you know, quantum circles, one of the interesting questions that I always get is like, have we achieved quantum advantage yet? And I keep you know, I keep having to describe that like people publish things saying that they did, and then people dispute them and show that they can be done classically and that's sort of like the pattern that we're in. And people say, Well, is there anything that's you know that you think is quantum advantage that we've achieved? And I usually actually just point to these peaked circuits because like basically you can just keep making them.
You know, like the s and quantum computers really can find the string almost immediately. And it's becoming harder and harder and harder, to solve them classically. So yeah, we'll it's exciting. We'll see where that goes. yeah, I did Quantum World Congress this year. This is this is always kind of a fun event. This one was at the University of Maryland this year. this event sort of brings in a lot of the DC crowd, which is a little bit different from a lot of the other quantum events.
You know, I would say like some of the things that I observed at this event is that it is getting to be harder in the quantum industry to differentiate between like the hype and the realities. I think quantum companies are under like more and more pressure to say that they're doing things that nobody else can do, that they're actually having quantum advantage, that their roadmap is gonna give
you know, significantly more, significantly better qubits faster than everybody else's is. I think with all of these companies being publicly traded, you know, there's more and more pressure to sort of like put the marketing narrative out ahead of the you know, real narrative, which is always just kind of an interesting thing to see. But overall, you know, an incredible time, incredible group of people was happy to be there.
All right. And maybe Omar, I'm gonna have you talk about the the hackathon at Clemson.
Omar [40:19]Yeah, so I guess immediately following Quantum World Congress and immediately preceding Exploit, we were at the South Carolina Quantathon hosted at Clemson University. This was a twenty-four hour challenge that we gave to students and we said, you know, go figure out your your best methods. you know, not unsimilar to what we're doing with Enigma. The challenge we provided to them was similar to ones we've talked about in the past, both with the MIT hackathon and
the Colorado School of Mines capstone project we sponsored earlier this summer. and the idea was we give you a bunch of data with quantum circuits and we give you the associated runtime on the Quantum Rings simulator. And your job is to figure out how do we model that into something that can predict the runtime without running, without having to actually execute the quantum circuits. And the proposition there is that this will be hugely useful for adding simulators to Open Quantum, right? Instead of having to
rack up credits and then get charged at the end of your simulation, which could take, you know, minutes to days. We can give you an idea. We bill you ahead of time. There's you know, no risk of sort of running through your your budgets. So it was super exciting to see the innovations made there. We had a lot of a lot of super interesting approaches. And the hope is that some of this work will then feed back into Open Quantum and and adding simulation to the platform.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [41:45]Heck yeah. and the f you know.
Omar [41:46]Am I correct
that we also spoke with some of the mentors and judges about some of the work we're doing here?
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [41:55]Totally. I actually I was just gonna like I was just gonna say the exact same thing. Yeah. So in that picture in the top, I guess top right, with Omar and I on the table, that's like the mentors room. Those guys aren't actually hackers, those are like the mentors. And okay, so in that room you had like a PhD student from Clemson, you had somebody from Oak Ridge, you had somebody from two different universities, and a guy that works at Amazon. And they just so one of the guys
I was having just a small conversation talking about Enigma and then it elevates to putting Enigma on the screen and we're like going through all the challenges and looking at the submissions. And then like over the next 24 hours, the number of times he was like, Hold on, you need to tell these people about and he'd just like bring other people in and we'd go through what Enigma is again. and like, you know, he was I don't know if he was joking, but he's like, I gotta start going and working on some of these challenges, you know. So like people just get stoked. It's funny what money like the the attention that money
brings when just say that you have like hundreds of thousands of dollars on a thing, or when you say that somebody just won $30,000 for doing some like work in quantum, like how much attention that garners. All right. Okay. So super excited to bring on Ryan. So Ryan, I'm gonna show you in the session here again. Welcome back. so I don't know if everybody got to see this, but at the exploit conference we actually had an announcement.
Which was that there is a brand new subnet coming, which is a subnet called Carbon. So long term lo longtime supporter Ryan is here with us. Ryan, why don't you introduce yourself and introduce your subnet?
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [43:35]Yeah, sure. I wanna start by saying you guys are way too kind for just letting me hop on and join you this quick. I mean, unbelievably nice of you guys. but yeah, so anybody that doesn't know me or hasn't seen me in the channels, JB rings on Telegram, transitioning that into me now that we're actually getting serious here. but but yeah, recently we we had a cool idea to bring a new subnet to Bittensor We're taking this new kind of model.
They're called surrogate models. There's different models in that class. But basically, they're models that are able to like to do physics simulation, right? So we're trying to aim BitTensor at making those valuable for actual engineering teams to do their simulation work that they're doing behind the scenes. So we're kind of trying to bring in outside teams and create value by
doing that work through Bittensor with carbon. So I don't wanna take too much time talking about it. if you guys wanna learn more, come on and ask me or join our group. But but yeah, we're really excited. really excited to potentially do some some work with you guys. Like lots of cool stuff.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [44:52]Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. If you if you guys are interested in collabing on a challenge, we'd be totally down. by the way, for ev anybody's benefit, if they want to learn more about that, what is the URL people should go to?
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [45:04]Yeah, it's Carbonphysics.ai is our actual website name. our handle on Twitter, I think, is the same. But yeah, you can find us there. You can find the website, you can just hit me up too. Just we're we're open, we're out there. We don't even have a slot yet. I think we're we're getting a newly registered slot here in the next week or so. So no need to go running out there trying to find us yet 'cause you won't. But you can definitely come get information. So
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [45:33]Awesome. Yeah. And so I I will say, you know, Ryan probably won't say so, but he was on the main stage at Exploit. you know, I was doing my best to get some nice photos of him 'cause these lighting all around him up there, you know, with all the big wigs of of the ecosystem. and he really just nailed it on his presentation and he won the contest to essentially get a BitStarter registered subnet. So yeah, congratulations.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [45:57]Yeah.
That was that was way out of my comfort zone. But I was like, you know what? If I don't try this, then I'm gonna regret it forever. So super pumped that we
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [46:05]Nah, you sh
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [46:05]did it. Super pumped that we got up there and did that. Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [46:08]You shine. There there he is in the bottom right there our own our own Ryan. All right. So
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [46:12]Mm-hmm.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [46:14]yeah, one of the things, you know, I'd love to just ask is your experience at Exploit. So especially ca, you know, coming from somebody who's been so active in like the digital community, then going and seeing everybody in real life. Like what were some of the things that, you know, that you observed?
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [46:33]Yeah, like my wife always says, going to meet my fake internet friends.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [46:36]Ha ha
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [46:37]the first
Ryan (ShorShot) [46:36]Ha ha ha.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [46:38]first for this group, I'll tell you what, I went to that quiz night they had the first night, and I'll be darned if I didn't walk in the door and immediately see Bob already out there wheeling a dealin'. I was like, holy cow, Bob means business. I was not expecting him to see well, I was not expecting to see him at quiz night, but yeah, had a ton of fun, got to really have some great conversations, and yeah, there was a lot. I mean, like you said, it's all the characters
I don't like calling them that, I guess. But all the people you know from the ecosystem are at these things. Like, especially this event. Like it was crazy the amount of people that were there that you knew who were, that you got to meet, that you got to talk to. Like, man, it was really cool. I even if you're not like for anybody listening, like going to something like this is awesome if you're just interested in getting more involved in the ecosystem because you're gonna have these conversations with people that might have ideas for you too. So, so yeah, that was
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [47:28]Yeah.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [47:29]that was really cool, man.
Yeah, I don't know where else you want to go. const
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [47:32]Big time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well we'll let's we'll we'll riff a little bit. Yeah. So one of the things just playing on the like di you know, my my digital fake friends, you know, meeting them in real life, is is funny. But one of the things that always like blows my mind is how like, you know, a good chunk of those people turn out to be like just completely different than I expect. You know, like you're like, this person's a giant nerd, you know, you know, like you
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [47:59]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [47:59]know, and then you get there and it's like some like
you know, strapping, you know, young guy or something, right? Or like, you know, or you you meet somebody where it's like they have like such a like strong online presence and then they're just like a really nervous person in real life. You know, they're like it kind of swings both
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [48:15]yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [48:15]directions. but one of the things that I was super impressed with, if I'm being totally fair, was Const's keynote. Like, you know, it felt like it was like a well produced, like,
You know, NVIDIA keynote or something like that, you know?
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [48:33]Yeah, I was pretty fired up about that, obviously. going th he yeah, for me it had a little bit of a slow start. I was like, I know you got something. Like he's talking about all this he he was talking about all the stuff we know, right, for all the new people, like getting them warmed up and then I knew he was gonna hit us with what he's got coming because he's been he's been really working hard at getting this ecosystem headed in the right direction. And I know he's, you know, done some things while doing that that aren't great for, you know.
Some of us, but
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [49:03]Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [49:04]but but but but he's headed there and and what he got to was really exciting, you know talking about incentivizing us bringing in outside capital and you know, more eyes, which we're trying to do and you guys are excellent at, and also using subnets within the ecosystem to build on each other and stuff. So I think they're that was a really great way to start the conference. I kind of got everybody's like morale up and ready to go and then and then yeah, the the rest of it was just
Really cool. Like the venue was amazing. Everyone was super nice. Like a lot of really good presentations and stuff. It was it was really impressive, I thought.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [49:39]Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And one of you know, one of the in interesting things that that Jake said on stage at Const said on stage was you know, like I I don't even remember the exact words, but it was basically like, Yeah, we we've had a little bit of drama over the last year, you know, like it you know, kinda owned that, which I thought was
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [49:58]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [49:58]good. And yeah, we were in a we were in kind of a weird spot because as anybody watching this almost certainly knows, you know, we were sort of one of the eight subnets that had the
you know, funny emission cut happen you know, like four weeks ago or or whatever. and so like one of the weird things for me personally at this show was that was the first thing everybody wanted to talk to me about was like, your emission got cut. Why'd your emission get cut? You know, or like what, you like what what was the inside story? And it's like, I don't know, I don't know. I'm like, no, I don't 'cause
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [50:31]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [50:32]you know, 'cause like at the same time, like, you know, like I tend to be like fairly
grateful for this ecosystem existing and anytime like you're moving fast trying to make things happen like things are gonna get screwed up along the way and and unscrewed up in a good ecosystem. but but also you know w well we happen to have been like the victim of that and our subnet saw a pretty big price correction because of it.
you know, things are back to kind of like operating smoothly now. And so I like, gosh, you know, like I wanna talk to you and have an open discord discourse on this, but I also don't wanna be like the guy who just wanders around the conference like having the same conversation over and over again. But
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [51:15]Yeah. An another another
huge theme was like people are ready for real value on this network. Like I think people are getting a little bit tired of the experimenting and you know, just not like at least not having a path to it, right? Like you guys obviously do. Like we're trying to provide, like I think we're making we're turning the corner on in dTAO
And starting to really pay attention to that. There was a few good talks about that with like Max from Score and the company he uses. I think it's like a consulting firm that he uses to talk to companies and stuff like that. So I really that made me feel really good about where things are going too, that people are taking that seriously. I had a lot of conversations like that. So that was good to hear.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [51:59]Totally.
And and in fact they they didn't launch, but they announced something that sort of plays right into that, which is, you know, so Ryan you mentioned he was you know, Jake was talking about this this vague idea which we can maybe read some things into about incentivizing subnets to bring dollars into TAO, right, which we we don't know how that's gonna happen yet. But he also talked about gamma, which is essentially about keeping
TAO in TAO, as opposed or you know, even like you know, like avoiding needing to take TAO to dollars to pay for operating costs. And so the basic idea with gamma, as I understand it, is it's like a completely on-chain mechanism that will allow subnets to transact with each other to sort of like incentivize, say like if I'm building my business and I need storage, well there's a subnet for that. Or if I need inference, there's a subnet for that. Or if somebody wants to develop their IP, we got a subnet for that.
And so we can sort of like start using gamma where we can take our own alpha, swap it into gamma, which then burns the target subnets, buys and burns the target subnets alpha, and and then it can be spent at that subnet. and so this one, you know, I think you know, Omar put the slide together and I'm thinking this is like largely about what our takeaways are on gamma. I guess I have a few opinions.
w you know, with with the level of detail that we have yet. But anybody else on the line have any opinions before I before I break the seal?
All right I'm
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [53:36]I think it's a great
way to allow subnets to control how they operate, right? It's it's letting you it's letting you kind of tune that owner emission to miner emission when you don't need as much miner emission, but you could benefit from paying for some compute. You can you can run your business that way and you can be transparent with your community. Like, hey, yeah, we are taking some of this emission to do this. This is gonna allow allow us to do this. Like for us, like some of the simulation data we have to generate is gonna be expensive because it's not cheap to run it. So we can
We can allocate, you know, 5% to g to do that if we have a challenge that requires that or something. So it allows people to run their business like they need to run their business. And I forgot to mention earlier that that same debate you were talking about, I was dying at too, where he was he was asked why can't he run his business on 40,000 alpha tokens and almost had to leave the room after that one.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [54:26]Like you will be deregistered. Yeah, man. I feel so bad. I'm
not gonna name any names because like the entire
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [54:33]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [54:34]time I was like, I should just get up and walk away. But I like, No, no, no, no, no,
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [54:37]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [54:37]no, no. This is a small ecosystem. I don't wanna do it. Yeah. but yeah, yeah. So so your point is
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [54:41]Yeah. Yeah that
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [54:44]yeah, go, please, please.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [54:46]No, I was just gonna say like this this kind of frees you up a little bit to it it gives you some capex, you know, some operating expenses like that you could use within the ecosystem to do things that you think are gonna benefit the that can benefit your subnet and you can benefit BitTensor and you can talk to your community about why you're doing it.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [55:04]Yeah. And so in my mind, the the the two really big things about this are one, it's all on chain. So like you can actually like like today if somebody's like, I sold a million dollars of my subnet because I need to make these investments, you have no idea. Like they might have just pocketed that money, like right. You have no idea.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [55:20]For damage.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [55:21]You just have to trust them. With gamma, if you're using gamma for it, you can at least verify all of that portion on chain. So I think that's a really big positive. the second
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [55:29]It's a great point. Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [55:30]the second big thing is like it's gonna like
TAO is already super strong, right? It's like it's an incredible like, you know, coin. But I can't buy stuff in Tao for most of the things that I buy. So if I, you know, so if I want to make Tao as strong as it can, which benefits all of us, then and I can find a way to transact without it leaving Tao, I should do that. And this gamma is gonna provide that. I guess the third big thing is if we're focusing on value creation.
We can measure it. Like you can query value creation from the chain. Because well, we don't exactly know how this will be implemented yet. My assumption is that where, you know, this thing we're doing in October, our intention is to buy alpha and burn alpha. Nothing says that that was done because that was revenue. But if instead I buy and then switch into gamma on my subnet, and then, you know, then that is actually like revenue for the subnet.
And so it creates a way where it's like not self reporting. And we could actually like say to the outside world, this many billions of dollars of value is being created in BitTensor, which, you know, as that number goes up and up, should make TAO go up and up, which is all very exciting.
Downside, the only downside I've thought of so far is okay, so I saw one subnet slide. I won't name a subnet, where they said they made $15 million in revenue off of sent selling the services from miners. And then they said, and big news, we did two million dollars in token buyback and burn. And I was like, wow, that's like you guys, you guys have
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [57:07]Switch.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [57:08]a hell of a margin. Right. So
Ryan (ShorShot) [57:10]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [57:11]You know, th they pocketed, well, okay, pocketed, they used $13 million to fund profits and operating costs, et cetera. They only put two million back in. And so with gamma, it will probably prevent that. But at the same time, you actually probably should have
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [57:27]Thank you.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [57:28]some amount of profit margin. Like you should have some mechanism to declare a profit margin. because once once something goes to gamma, it's burned.
you know, hundred percent of it is burned. You can't get that back, right? Which is interesting. Cool. okay, any other things before we move off of this one?
Yeah. Well we'll see the devil will be in the the the details of the implementation, but overall I think this is going to be strong for the ecosystem. and what is stronger for the ecosystem is that they told us what they were planning to do ahead of time, which is allows us to plan and, you know, try to strategize and build like make sure that our strategy aligns with their strategy, which is something that you can only do if you know what's coming down the pipe.
All right, community and QA, Omar, lead us.
Omar [58:20]Cool, cool, cool. I think one of the prevailing questions, which I think we've largely addressed, but you know, what is the bigger picture with breaking RSA? You know, are we gonna continue to increment milestones as we've been doing? And you know, what is the eventual goal if, you know, we keep making the claim that ten 24 is potentially years out?
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [58:41]Yeah, I think I think breaking RSA is gonna be all about well, initially it was about proving out the technology, building the subnet around a challenge that was really easy to understand. from this point forward, if I'm honest, it's clickbait. We're gonna use it to maximize the eyeballs on the subnet, pull attention into the ecosystem. you know, probably, you know, could could there be a licensing deal? For sure. Are we anticipating there being a licensing deal? I'm not. but but we'll we'll see. There's always
An option.
Ryan (ShorShot) [59:12]I mean, th we could always get surprised by a breakthrough and you know,
You know, that's what I would hope for with any challenge here.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [59:22]I hope the government sends a like some the DOD sends us like a cease and desist. Like that would be the best thing for our subnet. Can you imagine how cool that would be? Like you're doing too good, you must stop. Right.
Ryan (ShorShot) [59:32]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [59:34]All right. and then this other one, Omar.
Omar [59:37]Yeah. that's sort of asking for some sort of clarification, explanation on the the big drop in alpha price. I think, you know, we're quoted at fifty percent drop, which is a big hit for just about everyone involved. And the question is
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [59:53]Yeah, man. Yeah.
Omar [59:54]then what confidence can you give to investors that, you know, will be able to turn this around?
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [59:58]Yeah, okay. So on this one, you know, if for anybody that is just looking at the charts, I'm guessing this must be somebody who's looking at the charts but wasn't a part of the community four weeks ago. I mean, probably most people here know about this, but yeah, we had our emission cut off and like a fairly small targeted move where somebody logged in and used the root key to do that. I think that that was largely driven by the opinion that like
the way some people had built their subnets was sort of like accidentally having benefit over people that didn't build their subnets that way. We were kind of in good company. There were some other good subnets that also had their emission cut off there. you know, we think that it was largely kind of a mistake. We've made some changes, some small changes, around the concerns, but, you know, largely I would still say I think that that was kind of like
Hmm, a rash, a rash thing that was done that sort of damaged the ecosystem even more than it damaged us, if I'm being totally fair. But I think we're in good shape now. Everything is back on and going. now we did if an and actually Ryan might actually know the details on this better than I do, but I think the big down candle was one bag holder who declared that he had waited long enough because it had been a week with no emission.
and he was going to be liquidating and then a couple of other people jumped him and then he did liquidate. I think that's the net net is where we're at.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [1:01:29]Yeah, it's
just how things kind of cascade in dTAO right? Like you get one you get one person that decides they want to exit and then someone's watching that and then human psychology takes over. But I mean, we landed in a strong spot and you guys are headed in the right direction. Like everything I heard at Exploit, everyone I talked to at Exploit. I I I I'm like th I know what's the va where the value's gonna flow after this and after everything I talked to you about, like so confident in this.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:01:58]Yeah. And the cool thing is from a price perspective, we actually have like incredible technical support right now because if I'm not mistaken, our price is actually like just slightly below the liquidation price, like the settlement price on liquidation. Because we have we are one of the older traditional subnets where we have the benefit of like all of the alpha that had been burned in the past. All of that TAO still exists in our reserve pool. So like yeah, so I think we we're probably at a point where
smart investors might even just start buying our alpha just because like the put any potential liquidation price would actually go up from where it's at right now. But but yeah, we'll see. We'll watch where it happens. yeah, I think I think it's I mean I don't want to say the things I wanna say because I don't want to give advest investment advice, but I feel pretty good about where we're at.
Omar [1:02:47]Yeah, I think it's also worth noting. you know, we are hurting in terms of price and and I think most of the bag holders are are feeling a bit down now, un understandably. but at the same time the miner sentiment has never been higher. you know, we keep having new miners coming in and saying, I'm super excited about this. I I love the challenges. you know, we're seeing milestones chipped off every week, really. And the hope is as long as that
flywheel keeps turning, we'll be able to produce more, right? And so if we're on the precipice of you know, exploring
Ryan (ShorShot) [1:03:20]Yeah.
Omar [1:03:21]IP deals and we have white papers coming out, we're really starting to produce things that I think will then sort of turn things around on on the other front.
Ryan (ShorShot) [1:03:29]Yeah, a lot a lot of positive miner feedback. They love it. You know, some participants that are spending months on some of these challenges, you know, as kind of a a hobby and you know, having fun and the the ecosystem works pretty smooth. You know, for anyone that's that doesn't know about a Enigma and our platform, it's like, you know, we could take any
you know, run any code and and be able to validate that result and be able to have all the right mechanisms and lever levers to have this all all happen in one system and you know I it's it's it's a great clean and and and efficient system to be able to do this. So
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:04:11]Yeah. All right. So take us through sentiment, Omar, and then I think we're just about at a wrap.
Omar [1:04:18]Yeah. I guess jumping around, we've sort of been a little bit all over the place. there was a lot of hype for the launch of RSA 1024, the milestone. I think a lot of people are excited that we have this huge prize that could really attract attention. and then at the same time we had some other people that were maybe less stoked about it. They're like, what does that actually do for us? It's just marketing hype. so it's it's been a little bit
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:04:41]Yeah, yeah.
Omar [1:04:43]of a controversial change.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:04:45]Yeah.
I yeah, I love
Omar [1:04:46]On the right, it is marketing hype, but I think it c it could attract a lot of outside talent.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:04:50]it. Totally. Yeah. Like this these are you know, this is the fun stuff, you know, when it's like you know like actually they're like are you have people making strong arguments in both directions. Yeah, totally. Ten 24, we love it. Yeah, it's marketing hype. yeah, like no nobody's gonna break that in four hours on an RTX 6000, I hope. Otherwise we're all in a lot of trouble.
but yeah, yeah.
Omar [1:05:15]Hmm.
there was a lot of excitement about the Department of Energy announcement, which I think we had a slide for we ended up cutting just for time. But essentially the Department of Energy put out a challenge saying for every milestone you hit here and building a relevant quantum computer, we'll pay you a bunch of money. And and we took to Twitter and said, Hey, that seems awfully familiar. So it it it's
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [1:05:38]That's it.
Omar [1:05:38]confirmation that the sort of the the vision and the market that we're in is is relevant.
I will say there has been there have been some complaints around the marketing. I think the general sentiment is is we need more. We need more explaining the vision. We need you know, we need to be shouting all of this stuff from the rooftops. And largely we agree. we've been doing a lot behind the scenes to sort of brainstorm how we can turn that around, better sell the vision to new investors, as well as providing new content for the the old investors who sort of are are already on board.
Bob, I I will ask for you to comment on this. in the top right, there is one that says, I am Bob's son.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:06:26]I I I don't know that to be true. Gosh, Quas, we b we should we should connect and share some notes and
I yeah. Not as far as I as far as I know of, I I I I know all all of my children. Yeah. Maybe that is my like I've I don't know if you I know if ever
Ryan (ShorShot) [1:06:42]That sounds like a good challenge to have. So the next Enigma challenge is DNA test with Bob. So
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:06:52]So
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [1:06:51]Okay.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:06:52]I it would be hilarious if that actually was my son. So I do actually have a like a fifteen year old daughter, a fourteen year old son, and seven year old daughter. And so it could be that he's been, you know, watching on the side, but no.
I'm 99.9% sure Quas is not my my biological son. Quas, let me know if you have any other details. Thanks
Ryan (ShorShot) [1:07:15]Yeah.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:16]for thanks for including that, by the way, Omar. That's that's beautiful.
Omar [1:07:20]Of course, it was a last minute addition, but it felt like it needed to be spoken on. there was a fair bit of hype on the decentralized research lab narrative.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:28]yeah.
Omar [1:07:29]I think we probably are gonna be leaning into that a lot more heavily, but the idea is it's more than just a pressure testing.
Ryan (ShorShot) [1:07:36]Mm.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:36]So my my
own biological father is literally calling me right now. Like this
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:41]the universe is so weird right now. Okay.
Omar [1:07:43]A second podcast, guest?
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:45]Right. I was he watching my podcast. yeah. So hey, one
Ryan (ShorShot) [1:07:49]Let's bring in. Like put on the
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:52]I should yeah, pull up pipe him right in. I'll
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [1:07:56]Okay.
Bob Wold (BeyondNISQ) [1:07:57]you so I think we're just about at time. Actually, we're a little bit over time, but maybe the one thing I'll say is
I love that we are including both the positive and the negative on the sentiment. I think that that's really honest take. we are seeing, you know, a little bit more of the of the red than the blue than we usually do. and so yeah, we'll, you know, we'll obviously keep working on these things. I think right now, you know, I anticipate the 1024 hype will go away because that sort of was just a brand new thing. And so I think people will settle into that. and so I think filtering out those.
What I'm mostly hearing here is people want us to do more marketing. They like the new narrative. and so I think that those things align really well. I also think that if we truly do end up licensing the hardening quantum proof IP, even in my own company, and you know, bring revenue in and do a burn with that revenue, I think that is a pretty good show of you know the model, even though it's awfully incestuous.
you know it it could be a very good first thing. So yeah, I think I mean I feel I feel good. I feel like all of the all of the concerns here are on a path to be addressed. So awesome. Okay. with that, that is the last. so I'm again gonna thank JB Rings, Ryan for joining us. and I'm gonna thank all of our listeners who stayed with us, you know, and if you did,
stick with us all the way through the recent chaos with the freezing of the emissions, you know, and and are are here with us and we're, you know, we're really grateful for that. And if you were a holder who ended up departing, you know, no hard feelings. I think you know, in in the end everybody has to look out for you know, look out for their good. And so sorry that we couldn't get things remedied faster, that we couldn't, you know, work with the ecosystem to get that situation resolved faster.
I know that you know, even if you were one of the first people out, AMM slippage is gonna burn you a little bit getting out quick. And so yeah, yeah, we're we're sorry that again the ecosystem didn't work out quite right for you there. But yeah, thanks everybody and we will talk again soon. All right, bye. Yep.
Ryan Bequette (JB Rings) [1:10:16]Thanks guys. Appreciate
it.